Well my last post certainly triggered some rants and stirred the pot a little.... I like that. It also got me thinking about a topic that I have always wanted to post about but it's a monster of a debate, so I have stayed away .... until now. Maria from Philly mentioned it in her comment. The topic is "Gravy." che cosa? exactly..... GRAVY.
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, "Gravy" is a term that some Italian-Americans use to refer to their pasta sauce.
I'll start with a sprinkle of what I think and add in a pinch of what I know.
What I think: The short answer is I think gravy is for turkeys... I'm not making fun, I just think it's what you should have with turkey.. not pasta.
What I know: "Gravy" is not an Italian term (then again, neither is "sauce".) It is however a legitimate Italian-American term in certain regions, so it has its place in Italian-American culture. If you are an Italian-American from New York or New Jersey... maybe even outside of that area you may refer to your pasta sauce as "Gravy". I grew up in New England and as far as I know, Italian American's in this area do not use the term.
I think the word "Gravy" may originate from a sauce that is made with meat. It's common practice to make a tomato sauce starting with meat and then pull the meat out as a separate dish. The juice from the meat remains though.... so like making gravy, you're using the juices from meat.
So the closest definition of "Gravy" in Italian would be Ragu, which is a meat based sauce.(not the porcheria you see in a jar at the supermarket)
What is Italian? Sugo, ragu, salsa di pomodoro
Look up sugo in an Italian/English dictionary and you'll find both sauce and gravy (sugo di carne.) It is a lively debate. If you grew up using the term, you swear by it and if you didn't it's a crazy concept. Either way... buon appetito!
I'll leave you with this little clip from the Sopranos... I just wanted to use the first part of it but couldn't find a shorter version, so sorry for the profanity.... and play nice!
PS - Notice how the Italians think Paulie is cRaZy!
Add me to your Favorites
About Me
- joe@italyville.com
- Hi, my name is Joe and I'm a first generation Italian-American living in Massachusetts. I have been traveling to Italy my entire life and spent several years living and working in Bologna... which is still one of my favorite cities. I love my Italian heritage, family craziness, the wonderful food we Italians make and chats with my grandfather, who still wakes up early to hunt down wild mushrooms and asparagus in Calabria. I am the founder of (soon to launch) Italyville.com and Criterium Event Marketing Inc.(criteriumevents.com). Stop by and say hello.
Subscribe via email
Seven
Search
Blogs I like
- A Tuscan view - from Umbria
- Bella Baita View
- Bleeding Espresso
- Blog from Italy
- Casalba News
- Cassiano Family Blog
- Cucina Panzano
- Dish n that
- Expat American & Italian
- Finding La Dolce Vita
- Italian Foodies
- Life Lessons from Living in Italy
- Mental Mosaic
- My Bella Vita
- My Melange
- Noshtalgia
- Olio di Oliva e Sogni di Vino
- Proud Italian Cook
- R.T.D in Italia
- Rubber Slippers in Italy
- Sunday Sauce
Books
FEEDJIT Live Traffic Feed
Thanks to Julie at Noshtalgia and Amy/Jonny at We are Never Full
Thanks to The Food Hunter!
24 comments:
Oh boy! The big gravy vs sauce debate!!Duck and cover, Joe!
In our house it's sauce. In my cousins house, it's gravy..and we all live in NY. Go figure :)
Sauce in our house too, Joe. I'm only familiar with the east coast debate LOL! NJ cousins here too. Now you have me wondering what the west coast & southern states call it?
Hi Joe, In my house here in Chicago, we definately call it sauce. Yes gravy is what I make each year at Thanksgiving.lol
Well thanks for putting this out there Joe! Man it drives me crazy when I hear people calling it gravy. Gravy is BROWN and it goes on meat. As you said "gravy" is ragu which is a meat sauce. You try and explain that to these South Philly folks and they go nuts, they INSIST its maccaroni and gravy!!! AHHHHH can I slap them???? lol!
When I first heard the sauce called gravy, I remember that I was annoyed, too, thinking of American gravy. But now, I tend to think of it as a bit of a quaint-ism from the past maybe preserved here and there (I'm from California). Whether it's called sauce or gravy probably depends on when the family came from the old country.
Hi Joe!
Good post! I think Napleitanos call it gravy and Calabarians and Scilians call it sauce ....at least that has been my experience!
I'd never heard of gravy as a pasta sauce before reading it here.
On our side of the 'Pond' gravy is made from the juices of a roast joint and is poured over the meat when serving.
Oops, I just realized I posted my big long gravy/sauce comment on the other post, so here:
Also, my Italian-American grandmother was of the maccheroni and gravy school, and I used to tease her about it all the time. Now I just wish she were here, and I'd happily call it whatever she likes.
I've always believed, like you Joe, that "gravy" came from the logic of meat in the ragù. Since being here, though, my personal take has changed. In my part of Calabria, sauce (with or without meat) is often colloquially called "brodo," which, in standard Italian, is actually broth. But here it's used as a catch-all for anything in any way liquidy that goes on pasta. "Vuoi più brodo?" at my table means "Do you want more sauce?" and it can be anything from a seafood dish to a traditional ragù. Interestingly, it is also the word my OH uses whenever I make American-style gravy from chicken, turkey, etc.
Sooooo, my thinking is that in the New World, some Italian-Americans (from the south) may have adopted that catch-all word, brodo, for their sauce as well, and then only used one translation in English to express it: "gravy."
Just a theory, but I was really taken aback when my OH called (American) gravy "brodo." It was like a light bulb went off in my head ;)
P.S. I now see Pat's comment about Calabrians, and actually my family is Calabrian and call it gravy, so I'm not sure about those lines :)
I am from NY and I had both an Italian boyfriend (who thought he was a Soprano) and Italian landlords who became like family.
The both called sauce, gravy.
I call it sauce.
I'm with Sally on this one. If you're English you pour your gravy on the Sunday Roast and have a sauce on your pasta. I have seen the 'gravy thing' on other American blogs and alway thought it kind of strange. But hey, that's what makes you guys so fascinating, right!?:) Amanda
it is a touchy one isn't it Maryann?
Good question Yankeesoaper!
I'm with you Marie
Maria, I knew you had more to say:)
Homebody, I think you might be right and also where they landed once here.
Pat... no one in this area calls it Gravy. So again, I also think it's where your family settled and when.
Sally, that's my kind of gravy!
Interesting Michelle... we've used brodo too but go with sugo for pasta sauce.
Robin, NY Italians especially the ones who think they're Sopranos DEFINITELY call it gravy:)
By "fascinating" do you mean weird Amanda? lol
this is one of those perfect, "you know you're an Italian-American when" kind of moment. I did think it was a Northeastern type of debate - maybe Chicago too. But beyond that, i wonder if anyone else calls it gravy.
this post makes me smile.
It was always sauce in our house. Gravy was definitely the brown stuff. Another confusing word which came up in our family was the word "dinner". In our house it meant Sunday dinner or a big afternoon lunch and supper was the evening meal.
It was always macaroni and gravy in my house growing up. Sometimes it was called sauce but I alwasy though that gravy was a big pot of meat sauce with meatballs, sausage, pork neck bones, spare ribs, the whole nine. Then I met my ex who's family called it sauce. Macaroni was any type of pasta. That's just how I was taught. However, I stopped calling it gravy since I got the nickname "American Girl" from my ex's family and now it's called pasta with sauce. lol
I always heard it as both - though my stepdad's family would refer to marinara as "red gravy" (though, anything done with olive oil, like alla vongole, was never "white gravy").
I like the idea of "macaroni and gravy" but we would always have "rigatoni & sauce" or "cavatel(li) & sauce" -- but the generic term was "red gravy."
Can I just get a reality check on how stupid people sound when they say "broosh-etta" instead of "brus-ketta"?
I know this is an older post, but it made me laugh. I remember the first time I hear the term "gravy" referred to sauce. It was my ex boyfriend and we were eating dinner at my parent's restaurant and I was all appalled at the term...lol. He was from New Jersey and is the only person I have ever met that has called it gravy.
I'm from Boston and everyone I knew that was in the least bit Italian called red sauce GRAVY, so I think you're comment regarding New Englander's using this term is way off base! I have always called it gravy and WILL always call it gravy...
Hi Carla... interesting. I live in western Mass and the term is non-existent here but I also have close friends in Boston that do not call it gravy. The mystery continues. What generation Italian are you? Maybe it is less a geographical term and more of a generational term. Make sure to visit the new Italyville at www.Italyville.com
Being a second-generation Californian, I had never heard "gravy" used to describe red sauce until a Brooklyn-born friend came over for dinner. I thought he was drunk and didn't realize he was calling my beautiful meat-infused ragu "gravy". After hearing him say this a few times, I finally asked him why the hell he was calling the sauce "gravy" and he explained. Pretty funny and my ears have since become very attuned to who uses gravy vs. sauce -
Whatever you call it - it's damn good!
Joe,
I just discovered your blog while doing some research on the Sunday Gravy debate as I am preparing to teach a class on it. My experience in growing up in Rochester, NY sounds similar to yours...it's sauce.
You did a great job explaining it and I probably will be linking to it, if that's ok with you. Your blog is terrific!
I wonder what they put on mashed potatoes? Sauce or Gravy.
I would like to put my 2 cents worth in, and say that anything RED is sauce, and anything BROWN is gravy.
My South Philly Italian-American family called it gravy---both sides, maternal and paternal. It wasn't often we even had brown "gravy", so there wasn't much need to make a distinction. What I'd give to have another of my grandmothers' meals---ravioli, lasagna, braciole. All with their home-made gravy, of course.
I live in CT, my father was from Chicago. I know many who call it gravy, but to me it has and always will be sauce. And it's pasta - not macaroni. You eat macaroni with cheese.
Gravy refers to sauce that has meat in it... sauce is just plain sauce on meat..
Post a Comment